Discussions

Hey friends, this is a talk which I will be giving at a college group on Tuesday night. My disclaimer is that I’m simply opening up a huge can of worms and I do not intend on dealing with every objection. I’m not entirely sure that this whole article makes any sense. I would appreciate feedback on clarity if you have any.

Disclaimers

1. I am simply giving the first word on the subject.
2. This topic could open up many different paths to explore.  That’s okay.
3. I cannot deal with every aspect of the question.

God of the Old Testament Vs. the God of the New Testament:

When I was in college, I was in a fraternity.  The fraternity was an excellent experience.  Just like a lot of things in life, there were some good things and some bad things.  The one thing that I was very thankful about was that the guys in the fraternity didn’t hold back, nothing was set in stone and cliché answers didn’t work.  Many of my fraternity brothers knew I was a Christian and so they would hurl huge questions my way about the God of the Bible.  After working through some basic questions they usually had some deeper questions.  Questions not so much about the reliability of the Bible but questions about the reliability of the God of the Bible.  Questions about the nature of God.  The main hiccup was that whenever someone had preached to them, they would always tell them about how Jesus loved them and wanted a relationship with them.  This was all well and good but one of the main issue they had was that while the Bible revealed a compassionate, forgiving, graceful, and loving God found in Jesus, it also revealed, what appeared to be, a flagrant, harsh, killing, violent and vindictive God in the Old Testament.  This was quite the problem for my fraternity brothers.  Some of the feedback I got was “don’t tell me about a loving Jesus until you can explain to me how the God of the Old Testament commanded the Hebrews to slaughter thousands of people.” 

Bridging the Apparent Gap:

That was just one objection but there were MANY more…. Like, why did God choose the Jews?  And, did God choosing the Jews mean that all the other religions went to hell?  What about some of the stories of unfair treatment of women?  What about when God commanded Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, or when the prophets of Baal got slaughtered or the little boys who called Elijah baldy, or many other complicated Bible stories  These were some of the key issues that I zeroed because I didn’t want to blindly believe in a nonsensical God.  Also, if I’m being honest, I found myself asking the same questions.  These were things that puzzled me but I wasn’t taught how to deal….  Most of the time, I was told to “trust and believe” or that “God can do whatever he wants.”  Others would give some sort of justification for God’s actions but they’d hardly ever go into detail.  Usually God would get off the hook through some spiritual maxim that somehow excused him.  These responses didn’t really help and so I researched further.  In my research, I came across some reasons which had solid logic to back them.  What I learned was not just reasons but also a framework for dealing with these issues.  A legend to a apparently perplexing map.  I’d like to apply one event to this framework and see if it reveals a logical or illogical God.  I have learned this framework from others and so I am simply passing it along.  Perhaps it can be reworked or expunged but it is certainly worth looking at if we are to love the Lord with all our MIND.  But before we continue, I wanted to open up our time for a few minutes of discussion.  First off, does any of this ring a bell for anyone?  Does it spark any interest?  (If nobody says anything, here are some basic questions).

1. Were these fair objections for my non-believing friends to have?
2. Are these good questions for Christians to ask?
3. What are some possible suggestions for dealing with these things?  How should a Christian respond?

 

Bible Texts:

Turn with me to Numbers 21:1-2 Before, I read the passage, let me do a quick review of what has happened in the Bible up to this point.  We all know it starts with Adam & Eve in the good garden that God had created for them to enjoy but we also know there was an intruder who raped and ravaged the good garden.  God could have trashed the whole thing and started over but instead he decided to continue, so Adam & Eve got kicked out of the garden and life goes unhealthily goes on.  Then God spoke to one of their great, great, great, great, great grandchildren named Abraham.  And what did he tell Abraham?  In a nutshell, that he would bless Abraham and the ENTIRE WORLD through him.  He said that one day he would give him a better land.  A land flowing with milk and honey, by the way, that is not as the Bud light commercials say, a metaphor for cigarettes and beer.  (lol).  I’m kidding, he said he was going to give him a land which was not just like the Garden of Eden but better then the Garden of Eden.  So, Abraham started moving toward that land and ended up having kids who eventually became the leaders of a group called the Hebrews.  The Hebrews, ended up becoming slaves to the Egyptians who beat them and treated them horribly. This caused them to doubt whether God had promised anything to Abraham but God reaffirmed his promise by showing up to another Hebrew named Moses. God reassured Moses of the promise and he helped the people flee from the Egyptians. They fled and now were heading toward the Promised Land!  That is where we are going to pick up the story.  PS. That is the cliff notes on Genesis and Exodus in case you were wondering.  Here is the account.  When the Canaanite king of Arad, who lived in the Negev, heard that Israel(also known as the Hebrews) was coming along the road to Atharim, he attacked the Israelites and captured some of them.  Numbers 21:2 Then Israel made this vow to the Lord: “If you will deliver these people into our hands, we will totally destroy their cities.” 3 The Lord listened to Israel’s plea and gave the Canaanites over to them. They completely destroyed them and their towns.  It was passages like this that stood out to my fraternity brothers.  God’s plan included killing people?  The text says that they would completely destroy them….women….children…and everyone?  How could the loving God of the New Testament found in Jesus help the Israelites slaughter people?  I don’t know about you but that doesn’t sound hopeful to me.  That doesn’t sound very logical or loving.

Let’s  get going on the framework I talked about earlier.     

 1.  Literal or Figurative or Both?

The first thing we need to do is evaluate whether or not the stories were meant to be taken literally or figuratively.  When Jim Morrison says “I’m going to love you until the stars fall from the sky”, he obviously doesn’t intend his hearers to believe that a Super Mario fireball is going to destroy the earth.  Some books such as Song of Songs or Proverbs are written in genres that are not meant to be taken literally.  The passage we just looked at is a historical event being reflected upon.  Therefore, we cannot sweep it under the rug as if it didn’t happen.  We can’t just say they were made up stories.  Once we’ve established that they actually happened we’ll need to look at context.

2.  Context

Understanding the context will allow us to determine whether these events portray an illogical God. Exploring context has two layers.  The first layer is historical.  There are aspects of these texts in which our vision is disabled because we are thousands of years removed.  In between us and the Old Testament are cultural, economic, political and social blinders.  The world of the Old Testament had its own cultural, political and social norms.  Usually we can alleviate some of the tension with a passage by locating the main blinder.  The main blinder for us in this text is that in the Ancient Near East, to quote Rambo, “when you’re forced….killing is as easy as breathing.”  This was the type of civilization that they lived in (might I add that some in our day still live like this).  This was the air they breathed and the water they drank.  In the Ancient Near East kingdoms established and maintained power through military force.  So the goal of Ancient Near Eastern kingdoms was to establish an empire.  What do the Assyrians, Babylonians, Greeks and Romans all have in common?  They all tried to establish a world empire by overthrowing their neighbors and by making them their slaves.  This was how you got bigger, stronger, faster.  So, so far our historical context has revealed that the Hebrews were doing nothing out of the ordinary for their day.  With that in mind, we must now ask the question with respect to the event we are studying, is the God of the Bible simply doing what all the other nations were doing by trying to become an empire through military force?  If that is the case then surely we have no reason to trust the God of the Bible anymore then we trust the Canaanite gods. 

3.  Biblical Context

So the second layer of context is Biblical.  What are some of the things in the story of the Bible which have infused this event.  The account in Numbers occurred when the Hebrews had recently been liberated from the dominant Egyptian world power which was oppressing them as slaves.  These Hebrew slaves were escaping from their oppressors and these slaves were planning on starting a new kingdom where there were no slaves.  God helped the Hebrews to overthrow the Canaanites but he had given them some conditions once they took over.  Look with me at Exodus 23:9 This is a command that God gave to the Hebrews right before they were to take over the land of the Canaanites. “Do not oppress an alien; you yourselves know how it feels to be aliens, because you were aliens in Egypt.”  The God of the Bible, commanded his people NOT to hurt the alien.  Yes, he said, I’ve got your back in wiping out the inhabitants of the land but once you take over the land, treat the aliens around you with respect.  Therefore, it is clear that God is working under a different underlying principle then the surrounding nations.  God is not trying to create an oppressive empire which is what the other nations were doing.  There is a huge difference in intent. 

4.  Text With Context Reveals Principle

Therefore, one of the things we lose when we read this commandment to “not oppress the foreigner” is that for the Ancient Near East, it was a BRAND NEW IDEA.  During the time in which the event took place, taking over the land was how things were, that is how they functioned, but treating the alien with respect?  This was not apart of their world-view.  This was a fresh movement of God in the world.  For those people then, this was a progressive way of seeing the world, it was a graceful and caring way of seeing the world.  In both the Old and New Testament God is always calling humanity toward a better way.  However, in order to move humanity toward a better way he must speak in terms that they understand.  He must work with their world.  Ask yourself this question, what if God would have shown up and said, “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you”; would the Israelites have understood what he was saying?  Would that type of forward thinking have been beyond their ability to comprehend?  It isn’t that God takes pleasure in destroying people but he does take pleasure in helping people get to the next right step. (Ezekiel 23:11^)  And that is precisely what we see with the Canaanite wars.  God spoke to them as they understood without lowering his standard.  This is something which is mimicked by Jesus (Philippians 2:7-8).  The principle stays the same but the application is different.  God is still working in a progressive way even when dealing with some barbaric situations. 

Illustration

I have a 4 year old niece, totally beautiful, full of energy and always looking for a fight.  I picked her up from school the other day and she immediately asked me why here mom didn’t pick her up.  I let her know that her mom had some work to do and that she sent me to pick her up.  So, we get home and she immediately says that she needs to tell me something but that she needs to do it upstairs.  So, we go upstairs, I notice that she is anxiously looking around upstairs to see if anyone is home.  Then she quietly asks me where her mom is.  As soon as she hears her mom on the phone in the other room she quickly walks off.  It occurred to me after she heard her mom in the office that that’s what this whole thing was about.  She didn’t really have anything to tell me.  She was nervous, she had a fear that she would walk upstairs, nobody would be home and that I would leave her alone.  Yes, I understand that it sounds illogical but for some reason she was afraid.  So, what should I have done?  What was the proper response?  Should I have talked to her about how she has abandonment issues and how the best way to work through those was many hours in silence and solitude?  No of course not!  The only caring response would be to speak to her and to respond to her in a way that makes sense to her.  Eventually my niece will get older and I will be able to communicate with her in that way but in the mean time what am I to do?  I mention this event with my niece because I think it coincides with the story of the Bible. Humanity has been at different stages in its development and God has worked with them where they were, always pointing them toward the next right step.  The next right step for them was to over throw the Canaanites but to not establish an oppressive empire as the other nations were doing.  Perhaps this doesn’t sit well with some of you and you might think there was a better way to do it.  Perhaps but could we dream of a better way?  In my opinion this was the best possible and most gracious way for God to continue the ongoing story of redeeming the world.  What should God have done?  Should God have given up on humanity because of how barbaric they were?  What is more barbaric, to give up on humanity or to try to help it towards the next right step.

Gas Powered Cars

Some of you might be thinking, no that’s a cop out.  These people were totally messed up.  God shouldn’t have even wasted his time.  But lets take a look at our current world.  I recently finished up with a 3 year seminary program.  During that time, money was tight.  Occasionally, friends and family from back home would send me a care package or some money.  Usually there would be a nice note attached to the check or card.  Something that read like this, “Steve, during my daily prayers, I felt an intuition from God to send you gas-card.  I hope you can use this gas-card at a gas station near you.”  So what did I do with that gas-card?  I filled my car up with gas.  Now, imagine, 3000 years into the future.  The air is incredibly polluted and they are breathing bad air because there was a civilization before them where soccer moms drove army vehicles called Hummers, which polluted the environment, to go the grocery store and buy a half a gallon of milk.  They are no longer using gas-powered cars.  They came up with a new technology where the atmosphere doesn’t get polluted.  They have progressed culturally and are living totally differently than we are today.  Archeologists happen to dig up a folder from the year 2010.  The folder has a diploma in it from a Christian school, and it also has a little note about a gas-card in it.  Historians analyze the note, they do research on the language and figure out that the note meant exactly what it said!  Would it be fair of them to conclude that the God who the Christian school endorsed didn’t care about the environment?

 

Conclusion:

The only logical conclusion is that God cared for the people who were living in some awful ways and that his intention was to carry them into a good future.  It isn’t so much that God wanted some of these things to happen but it’s more so that God didn’t want to give up on humanity.  He has a plan to redeem humanity and his plan included working with people through every step of their development.  God never acted out of his character, he always treated people in a way that made sense to them and in a way that would be redeeming.  God was and is leading his people into a good future.  We still live in a world that is barbaric in many ways but the story isn’t over.  Christian hope is that Jesus will come back and put the world to rights.  In the mean time, God is working with us towards living rightly.     

Straight From Jesus Mouth

Lets look at another passage which takes place about 1500 years after the conquest event.

Mark 10:2 Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?” ^3 “What did Moses command you?” he replied. ^4 They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.” ^5 Jesus replied “It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law.” ^6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ In other words, Jesus is saying, “look it isn’t that God likes bad things like divorce or genocide, but God works with people where they’re at.”  At the end of the day, I think that, that response, that way of looking at the Scriptures is a lot more reliable and hopeful then simply brushing these passages off. 

A Review of the Method

1. Literal or Figurative.
2. Context.
3. Text applied to context.
4. Text with context reveals underlying principle.

 

Application:

Once we figure out the underlying principle we can then ask some questions about how this applies to our life.  Many of us find ourselves doing some barbaric things.  We find ourselves sometimes caught in the grasp of some sin.  Maybe some of you are in some really dark places and you don’t think there is anyway that God would meet you there because it’s just too barbaric.  Rest assured that he is there and he is pointing you toward the next right step.  Whether it’s an addiction, or a hurt, or a selfish desire that you can’t get rid of, he is there, point you toward the next-step.  We can have hope that God has not given up on us just as he did not give up on the people in the past.  What if the Israelites would have not treated their neighbor good?  Where would the plan of God be now?  Every little step counts. 

Perhaps the event would seem less barbaric in its proper perspective.  Would anyone fault Bonhoeffer or the many others who tried to assassinate Hitler before his evil spread?  Many of us do not see it this way because we are so far removed from the culture in which those people lived.

This entry was posted on Sunday, May 9th, 2010 at 9:30 pm and is filed under Bible, Books. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.